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Can I get Juno-106 sounds from Cypher2?

Hello. I am newbie in sound synthesis, can someone explain, how to get Juno-106 sounds from Cypher2, or at least, something close to Juno-106 sounds? Is it real? Thank you.


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Hi Kirill,
Cypher2 can create all manner for analogue sounds, Juno-106 included. However, it would help me to know what type of Juno sound you are after. For example, Juno-106's were used for bass, pads, stabs, plucks, so in order to help you, please let me know, which specific sound group you are after.

For example, let's look at a 'pad'.
Juno-106 has one oscillator and a sub-oscillator. For the purpose of this pad we will use just the main oscillator.


1. Load the default patch in Cypher2.

2. Create a longer AMP Envelope release, and create a soft AMP Envelope attack. Adjust to taste, but the idea is to have a basic starting sound which has a soft attack, and longer release. This release stage is important as it will create a lovely 'chorusing' effect as you start playing chords. All notes will inter-mix (poly-voice count permitting).

3. Now, look at the TransMod window slots on the top of Cypher's GUI and locate LFO2 -+.  Click on it, to highlight it. It should light up 'yellow'.

4. Move Oscillator 1 Wave knob to 65%. This should give as a Pulse Wave, or one of its variants (between 51% and 75% you have the Pulse wave and by varying the range here, you get various pulse widths)

5. Now, with that LFO-+ selected, assign a little bit of LFO2 modulation to the Osc Wave dial. You can do it to taste, but I'd recommend adding up to74% of LFO2 modualtion amount). Here, we are creating a classic analogue effect called PWM (Pulse Width Modulation). This is a superb effect when it comes to pads, especially on synths with one oscillator. PWM creates an illusion of an ensemble sound, or more than one oscillator, it makes the sound 'bigger', as it were.

6. Now, we need to go to LFO2 and change the Rate speed. So set the Rate to about 2.36 Hz. It could be slightly faster, if you wish. Don't make it too fast, nor too slow. The idea is that you hear a moderate LFO motion on that Wave knob. 

7. In the LFO2 module, make sure that you have the Triangle wave selected (Tri-C or Tri-S). A triangle wave is the classic wave used for PWM. So let's use that.


The above gives us a nice start, but, analogue synths, even those with DCO oscillators, like the Juno-106, have a certain lovely, 'organic' sound, which we need to somehow imitate in software. To do so we can add a few tricks, which will transform the basic waveform, and add subtle variation..

So..


9. Click on the first TransMod slot, where it says 'Rand-+'. Make sure it's highlighted in yellow.

10. assign it to Oscillator 1 Fine dial. Just a little bit, maybe until you see 0.32Hz.



11. Double-click the LFO1 transmod slot and look at the main visualiser on the GUI. 

Look at the Source, and on the right you will see:

LFO1 main out (unipolar)

Click in it, and select the following from the drop down menu:

LFO1 main out (bipolar)

This gives us LFO1-+.


12.  Now, we will assign this LFO1-+ to the master Fine dial. So let's do that. Just a little bit. Just so that you see some yellow mod range. If you want to be more specific, then, right click on the Fine dial, Select 'Snap' and then switch it OFF. Now, when you add this LFO1 mod to the Fine dial, move the mouse until you see +0.11st. 


13. Now, we need to go to the LFO1 module and adjust the rate and the wave. So first edit the rate to 4.64hz (it could be any number around 4 or 5 Hz)

14. Then edit the wave and select this: Rmp-Wht. This is a smooth random wave.


If you do it all correctly, you should end up with a bright pad which has a lovely, lush sound. 


You can now improve this sound further, add the chorus effect, which the Juno's were famous for. So:


15. Go to the Effect page and load Amber Chorus

16. Select the 1981 mode.

17. Set Speed to max, spread mono, or to taste. Mix level to max.


Alternative chorus sound:


18. Mode 1984, Speed at 79%, 'Spread' to taste


All of the above will give you a lush, smooth, bright, organic sounding Juno-style pad. Now, you can edit the filter to taste to make it darker. 


Try to do this as an exercise. 


Answer

Hi Kirill,
Cypher2 can create all manner for analogue sounds, Juno-106 included. However, it would help me to know what type of Juno sound you are after. For example, Juno-106's were used for bass, pads, stabs, plucks, so in order to help you, please let me know, which specific sound group you are after.

For example, let's look at a 'pad'.
Juno-106 has one oscillator and a sub-oscillator. For the purpose of this pad we will use just the main oscillator.


1. Load the default patch in Cypher2.

2. Create a longer AMP Envelope release, and create a soft AMP Envelope attack. Adjust to taste, but the idea is to have a basic starting sound which has a soft attack, and longer release. This release stage is important as it will create a lovely 'chorusing' effect as you start playing chords. All notes will inter-mix (poly-voice count permitting).

3. Now, look at the TransMod window slots on the top of Cypher's GUI and locate LFO2 -+.  Click on it, to highlight it. It should light up 'yellow'.

4. Move Oscillator 1 Wave knob to 65%. This should give as a Pulse Wave, or one of its variants (between 51% and 75% you have the Pulse wave and by varying the range here, you get various pulse widths)

5. Now, with that LFO-+ selected, assign a little bit of LFO2 modulation to the Osc Wave dial. You can do it to taste, but I'd recommend adding up to74% of LFO2 modualtion amount). Here, we are creating a classic analogue effect called PWM (Pulse Width Modulation). This is a superb effect when it comes to pads, especially on synths with one oscillator. PWM creates an illusion of an ensemble sound, or more than one oscillator, it makes the sound 'bigger', as it were.

6. Now, we need to go to LFO2 and change the Rate speed. So set the Rate to about 2.36 Hz. It could be slightly faster, if you wish. Don't make it too fast, nor too slow. The idea is that you hear a moderate LFO motion on that Wave knob. 

7. In the LFO2 module, make sure that you have the Triangle wave selected (Tri-C or Tri-S). A triangle wave is the classic wave used for PWM. So let's use that.


The above gives us a nice start, but, analogue synths, even those with DCO oscillators, like the Juno-106, have a certain lovely, 'organic' sound, which we need to somehow imitate in software. To do so we can add a few tricks, which will transform the basic waveform, and add subtle variation..

So..


9. Click on the first TransMod slot, where it says 'Rand-+'. Make sure it's highlighted in yellow.

10. assign it to Oscillator 1 Fine dial. Just a little bit, maybe until you see 0.32Hz.



11. Double-click the LFO1 transmod slot and look at the main visualiser on the GUI. 

Look at the Source, and on the right you will see:

LFO1 main out (unipolar)

Click in it, and select the following from the drop down menu:

LFO1 main out (bipolar)

This gives us LFO1-+.


12.  Now, we will assign this LFO1-+ to the master Fine dial. So let's do that. Just a little bit. Just so that you see some yellow mod range. If you want to be more specific, then, right click on the Fine dial, Select 'Snap' and then switch it OFF. Now, when you add this LFO1 mod to the Fine dial, move the mouse until you see +0.11st. 


13. Now, we need to go to the LFO1 module and adjust the rate and the wave. So first edit the rate to 4.64hz (it could be any number around 4 or 5 Hz)

14. Then edit the wave and select this: Rmp-Wht. This is a smooth random wave.


If you do it all correctly, you should end up with a bright pad which has a lovely, lush sound. 


You can now improve this sound further, add the chorus effect, which the Juno's were famous for. So:


15. Go to the Effect page and load Amber Chorus

16. Select the 1981 mode.

17. Set Speed to max, spread mono, or to taste. Mix level to max.


Alternative chorus sound:


18. Mode 1984, Speed at 79%, 'Spread' to taste


All of the above will give you a lush, smooth, bright, organic sounding Juno-style pad. Now, you can edit the filter to taste to make it darker. 


Try to do this as an exercise. 


3 people like this

Rafael, THANK YOU for sooooo detailed instructions! I'll try this! Are you from Cypher2 developers team? ) 

[quote] Are you from Cypher2 developers team?[/quote]


Yes.

I'm the Principal Sound Designer at ROLI. :)


2 people like this

Please do more of these Rafael. C2 is a monstrous beast with a complex interface, and it must be coming into the hands of a lot of less experienced sound designers (like me) due to the Seaboard deals. It's not so much the actual nob twiddling mechanics as it is the explanations and thought processes that I like. 


2 people like this

Thank you, Himalaya :)

How can we get so lush sounding patches as we can hear in U-HE Repro (Prophet emulation)?

Hi Kirill, Please point me to some of those Repro patches and I will see if we can make similar ones in Cypher2. I use and like Repro a lot. It’s a amazing.

Hi, Rafael! My favourite patch called "Vega" in Repro-5. I'll be happiest guy if we could reproduce it in Cypher2 and use it's modulation possibilities!

Hi Again,


Attached is a ZIP with something (hopefully) similar enough to the patch in Repro-5.


The patch is as close as I could make it considering that the Repro engine is very different.

The main difference comes from the Prophet-5 design with each oscillator being able to use two or three waveforms at the same time. We can do this in Cypher2 too, but I'd need to use Unison to perform this trick (and split a single waveform into two), but at the same time Unison would change the tone of the patch drastically. So, I had to balance the available waveforms (three oscillators) as best as I could and keep the tone as close to the one in Repro. 


The ZIP contains:


1. One 2D version

2. V1 5D - SLIDE assigned to ring-modulation

3. V2 5D - SLIDE assigned to step-sequencer motion

4. V3 5D - SLIDE assigned to ring-modulation and Filter FM


All three 5D presets have PRESS assigned to the LPF and volume.

All presets also have all controllers assigned so if you have a Seaboard RISE, the three faders and the XY pad will work nicely too.


Enjoy.

zip

1 person likes this

Thank you VERY MUCH, Rafael! It's pretty pretty close! I'm absolutely satisfied! And I like your modulation assignments! Yes, I have RISE 49. One more question. Can we modulate reverb tail length and it's volume and wideness (spread) by slide? I think it would be nice effect! 


Now for me it is one of the best patches that I heard in Cypher2 )))

One more idea to this patch is to modulate reveb by strike. Let's say, the harder we strike a note, the shorter will be reverb tail (and let's say, shorter attack of ADSR of this sound if we hit harder). Is it possible in Cypher2? Thank you for your help!

Hi Kirill,

I'm happy that you like it.


The subject of using effects with 5D modulation in Cypher2 is complicated. Yes, we can do it. Very easily. All effects can  be modulated. Their individual mix sends, bus sends, and all parameters which are  available via dials.

However, there are two issues that we need to be aware of:


1. All effects are monophonic modulation sources. All effects are post-the actual synth engine. 

However, the synth engine itself offers polyphonic modulation sources and destinations. 

So, if we want to use a polyphonic mod source (SLIDE) and assign it to a monophonic mod destination (say, reverb send level) then we create a situation where only one note can ever modulate that reverb send level. Imagine you play a chord and a lead line. The lead line can modulate the reverb, but if you them decide to use one of the notes within the chord and try to modulate the reverb, nothing will happen. 

So the end result is that modulating effects with polyphonic mod sources will give a choppy, disjoined result.  It can cause clicks and weird, volume pops.  So, this scenario is not satisfactory. 


However, we can still modulate effects and have good results, this can happen if we use monophonic patches. Here, when the sound is 'mono' it will ever have one note of polyphony to modulate those effects, and it will work just great ('mono mod source to mono mod destination')  But, that's not the end of our troubles:


2. Modulating certain 'time' based parameters will give noisy artefacts. So, if you want to modulate the reverb 'time' or 'density', doing so in realtime will create noisy clicks and such. This is just how it is.

So, not all parameters are suitable for real-time modulation.


The above two examples of polyphonic-effect-modulation are not a shortcoming of Cypher2. If we wanted to have polyphonic effects where we can modulate them with 5D, then the actual CPU use would be horrendously high and it would make such a preset unplayable. So, a lot of this is dictated by the CPU requirements. 


There are presets in Cypher2, where effects are indeed modulated via 5D. These are mostly 'monophonic' presets like SQ Dimensional Effects. Try it out. It's fun. :)




1 person likes this

Thank you, Rafael! It seems, I can imagine in my mind a lot more than modern synths and cpu's can do ) 

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